Steve Paikin sits at the newsdesk in the Agenda studio. He wears a dark grey suit with a patterned grey tie and a white pocket square. His dark curly hair is cut short and combed back. The white brick walls of the studio are lit with soft blue light while a large graphic behind Steve features a red lowercase “a” on a white background. Steve interlocks his fingers as he rests his hands on the glass desk. A glass of water and Steve’s notes are placed in front of him.

Text reads, “Does Canada Need A Tenant Uprising?”.

Text continues, “Steve Paikin, @SPaikin @TheAgenda”.

Steve begins,
HERE'S A PROVOCATIVE IDEA: WHAT
IF THERE IS NO HOUSING CRISIS, BUT
RATHER, THAT THE MARKET IS
WORKING JUST AS INTENDED -- TO
MAKE THE RICH RICHER AND THE
WORKING CLASS BEHOLDEN?
THAT IS THE CONTROVERSIAL THESIS
AT THE HEART OF RICARDO
TRANJAN'S NEW BOOK.
IT'S CALLED "THE TENANT CLASS."

Ricardo Tranjan’s book “The Tenant Class” is displayed next to other hardcover books on a shelf. The red and blue cover features white text over the image of a tall apartment building.

Steve continues,
RICARDO TRANJAN IS A SENIOR
RESEARCHER WITH THE CANADIAN
CENTRE FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES
AND HE JOINS US NOW IN STUDIO.
HI THERE.

Ricardo replies, HELLO.

Steve says,
YOU MAKE THE CASE THAT
CANADA DOESN'T HAVE A HOUSING
CRISES RATHER THAT THE HOUSING
SECTOR IS WORKING AS EXPECTED.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

Text reads, “Ricardo Tranjan, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives”.

Ricardo sits with Steve at the Agenda desk. A painting of the Ontario Legislature building is displayed on the wall behind him. Ricardo wears a grey blazer with a light grey button-down shirt. He has a short beard and his short brown hair is brushed to one side.

Ricardo responds,
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A CRISIS YOU
WOULD EXPECT SOMETHING THAT
IMPACTS EVERYONE NEGATIVELY OR
MOST PEOPLE, LIKE COVID.
YOU WOULD EXPECT EVERYONE TO BE
INTERESTED IN SOLVING THAT
PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL BECAUSE
WE DON'T LIKE CRISES.
AND NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER
THAN THE -- FATHER FROM THE
TRUTH IT HAS BEEN THE SAME THING
FOR THE HOUSING MARKET AND THE
RENTAL MARKET SPECIFICALLY FOR A
LOCK TIME.
THE SITUATION HAS BEEN
DETERIORATING FOR A LONG TIME.
IT'S IT IS TENANTS AND PEOPLE
WHO ARE UNHOUSED.
EVERYONE ELSE THEY'RE DOING
QUITE FINE.
AND ALSO, IN THE PART THAT I
FIND MOST IMPORTANT, NOT
EVERYONE IS INTERESTED IN
CHANGING THE STATUS QUO.
BECAUSE SOME ARE BENEFITING
TREMENDOUSLY.

Steve says,
LET ME JUST UNDERSTAND.
YOU THINK THE DECISION-MAKERS
HAVE THE SYSTEM THE WAY IT IS
BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP
LANDLORDS UP AND TENANTS DOWN?

Ricardo notes,
THEY RESPOND TO THE BALANCE OF
FORCES AND POWER IN OUR SOCIETY.
AND IN OUR SOCIETY, THE REAL
ESTATE INDUSTRY, THE DEVELOPERS,
LANDLORDS, THEY HAVE A LOT MORE
POWER TO INFLUENCE POLICIES THAN
DOES THE TENANT CLASS.

Steve says,
LET'S DO AN EXCERPT FROM YOUR
BOOK.
SHELDON, IF YOU WOULD BRING THIS
UP, THIS IS FROM "THE TENANT
CLASS."
IN WHICH RICARDO WRITES:
CANADA'S RENTAL HOUSING MARKET IS
DOING WHAT RENTAL MARKETS DO:
EXTRACT INCOME FROM WORKING
CLASS FAMILIES AND TRANSFER IT
TO THE CAPITAL-OWNING CLASS.
LANDLORDS GROW WEALTHY WHILE
TENANT FAMILIES EXPERIENCE
FINANCIAL INSECURITY JUST LIKE
GREEDY BOSSES GET RICH ON THE
BACKS OF LOW-WAGE WORKERS.
THE DOMINANT HOUSING CRISIS
NARRATIVE IS PART OF THE
PROBLEM.
IT EXEMPTS LANDLORDS AND
GOVERNMENTS FROM RESPONSIBILITY
BY SUGGESTING THAT EXCESSIVE
RENTS ARE A NEW AND UNEXPECTED
PROBLEM THAT REQUIRES COMPLEX
TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS.
WHILE THE EXPERTS LOOK FOR THOSE
SOLUTIONS, THE MARKET CONTINUES
TO DO ITS THING.
OKAY, WHAT IS THE DOMINANT
HOUSING NARRATIVE YOU REFER TO
THERE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO
DISMANTLE IN THIS BOOK?

Ricardo states,
THE BOOK ATTEMPTS TO
CHALLENGE THE IDEA THAT SUPPLY
AND DEMAND CAN EXPLAIN
EVERYTHING THAT WE SEE IN THE
HOUSING MARKET THAT IF WE HAD
MORE PEOPLE, PRICES WOULD GO UP.
THAT IS ONLY PART OF THE STORY.
AND WE KNOW THIS.

Steve asks,
WHAT'S THE OTHER PART OF THE
STORY?

Ricardo answers,
THE OTHER PART OF THE STORY IS
THAT SUPPLY IS NECESSARY BUT
NOT SUFFICIENT.
WHAT WE BUILD, WHERE WE BUILD.
WHO FINANCES IS, ON WHOSE LAND
WE BUILD.
WHETHER WE HAVE REGULATIONS OR
NOT.
THAT PART OF THE STORY IS
EQUALLY IMPORTANT IF YOUR
DESIRED OUTCOME IS
AFFORDABILITY.
WITH YOU WHEN YOU GET TO THOSE
SETS OF QUESTIONS IT'S NOTHING
ABOUT BUILDING.
NOW YOU GET TO VERY POLITICAL
QUESTIONS ABOUT REGULATION,
FINANCING AND SO ON.
AND SO THAT'S THE PART OF THE
CONVERSATION THAT I WOULD
PREFER -- I LIKE HAVING IT, I
WROTE THE BOOK SO WE CAN HAVE
IT.
BUT CERTAIN ACTORS, NAMELY
DEVELOPERS, INVESTMENT TRUSTS
AND THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY
GENERALLY PREFERS NOT TO HAVE.

Steve notes,
THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE TENANT
CLASS" IS THE TENANT CLASS
EVERYONE WHO IS A TENANT?

Ricardo replies,
YES, IN MY DEFINITION, YES.
EVERYONE WHO IS A TENANT.
EVERYONE WHO IS ALSO UNHOUSED
AND WHO LIKES TO BE A TENANT BUT
UNFORTUNATELY HASN'T MANAGED TO
DO SO.

Steve asks,
AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE -- IN
YOUR VIEW, MYTHS ABOUT THE
TENANT CLASS?

Ricardo responds,
YES, WITH THE BOOK WHEN YOU GET
OUT OF THE NEW CLASS ECONOMICS
AND IT STARTS GOING TO POLITICAL
ECONOMY YOU INEVITABLY BUMP INTO
SOME OF THE CULTURE ASPECTS OF
OUR SYSTEM AS A WHOLE.
IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO TALK
ABOUT THE MYTHS AND THE NOTION
THAT TENANTS ARE OVERALL PEOPLE
WHO FAILED.
ESSENTIALLY.
IF YOU WORK HARD, THE MYTH GOES,
AND YOU SAVE, YOU WILL BE ABLE
TO BUY A HOUSE AND YOU NO LONGER
ARE BEING A TENANT.
THAT'S NOT TRUE.
PEOPLE REMAIN TENANTS FOR A
NUMBER OF REASONS AND THEY'RE
NOT FACING THE SECOND CLASS
RATE.
THEY OFTEN DON'T HAVE POLITICAL
RIGHTS.
THIS CONSIDERATION IS IMPORTANT.
BECAUSE THE MYTH IS WHY ARE THE
MIDDLE CLASS CONSTANTLY ASPIRING
FOR HOMEOWNERSHIP, THEY KNOW HOW
TO READ THE ROOM, POLITICIANS.
AND IT BECOMES HARDER TO TALK
ABOUT RENTER ISSUES.

Steve says,
YOU WRITE THAT LANDLORDS ARE
SOMETIMES MISCHARACTERIZED AS
SORT OF STRUGGLING, FAMILY, MOM
AND POP OPERATIONS.
WHAT IS NOT ACCURATE ABOUT THAT?

Text reads, “Ricardo Tranjan, @Ricardo_Tranjan”.

Ricardo states,
THERE ARE TWO THINGS.
FIRST, ONE IS THAT THE SMALL MOM
AND POP LANDLORDS IS ONLY A
SHARE OF THE MARKET.
IN THE BOOK I ESTIMATE THAT IT
IS ABOUT 22% WOULD BE SMALL
BUSINESS OWNERS AND THERE'S
ANOTHER 30% OR SO WOULD BE
INVESTORS.
THEIR SHARE OF THE MARKETS
THEY'RE NOT ALL OF IT.
THE SECOND PROBLEM IS THAT WE
TEND TO TALK ABOUT THEM AS
STRUGGLING FAMILIES.
NOT AS INVESTORS.
SO IN THE BOOK, I PICKED AN
EXCERPT FROM THE NEWS ARTICLE
THAT DESCRIBES A FAMILY THAT
DECIDED TO BUY A SECOND HOME TO
MAKE CAPITAL GAINS AND --

Text reads, “Does Canada Need A Tenant Uprising?”.

Steve adds,
THAT HAS A SECOND SOURCE OF
INCOME.

Ricardo continues,
HAS A SECOND SOURCE OF INCOME.
AND THEY HAD TO SELL IT.
BUT IN TIME IN STORIES IN THE
NEWSPAPERS AND WE SEE THIS
OFTEN.
THIS IS DESCRIBED AS ONE FAMILY
STRUGGLING.
I REPHRASED THAT AND I SAID
WELL, INVESTORS HAD SOME MONEY
SET ASIDE.
THEY DECIDED TO GO FOR SOMETHING
THAT IS HIGH RETURNS AND LOW
RISK.
SO THEY WENT INTO THE REAL
ESTATE MARKET.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT
BUSINESSES DIDN'T GO AS WELL AS
THEY DESIRED.
THEY HAD SOME OPERATIONAL LOSSES
BUT THEY STILL HAD CAPITAL GAINS
THAT MORE THAN OFFSET THE
LOSSES.
WHY ARE WE NOT TALKING ABOUT
LANDLORDS IN THOSE TERMS?
WHY IS THE STRUGGLING FAMILY
TRYING TO PAY DOWN THE MORTGAGE?
IT MISCHARACTERIZES THE SITUATION.

Steve says,
YOU ALSO WRITE THAT THE MOST
IMPORTANT WAY FOR TENANTS IS TO
ORGANIZE, MOBILIZE AND FIGHT BACK.
WHY IS THAT?

Ricardo responds,
IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING.
RIGHT NOW TENANTS HAVE THE RIGHT
TO ORGANIZE.
BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY
MECHANISMS TO EXERT THOSE
COLLECTIVE RIGHTS.

Steve says,
YOU WANT THEM TO BE MORE LIKE
A LABOUR UNION.

Ricardo replies,
EXACTLY.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK, AS THE BOOK
DOES, AT A HUNDRED AND FIFTY
YEARS OF TENANT ORGANIZING IN
CANADA, IT ALWAYS STARTS ALWAYS
IN THE VERY LOCAL AND THERE'S A
SMALL RENT STRIKES AND OTHER
COLLECTIVE ACTIONS.
BUT USUALLY MOMENTS WHERE THERE
IS A STRONG TENANT MOVEMENT ARE
FOLLOWED BY POLICY CHANGES THAT
HAVE POSITIVE IMPACTS FOR
TENANTS, ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS,
ADDITIONAL GOVERNMENT, AND
FUNDING FOR LOW MARKET HOUSING.
SO IN A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE,
THE TENANT MOVEMENT HAS OFTEN
BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT IMPROVING THE
CONDITIONS FOR TENANTS.

Steve notes,
IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE PROVINCE
OF ONTARIO, THOUGH, THERE ARE
MORE HOMEOWNERS THAN TENANTS
AND POLITICIANS TEND TO GO WHERE
THE VOTES ARE AND HOMEOWNERS
VOTE MORE THAN TENANTS DO IN
DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBERS.
SO HOW IS IT THIS ROUTE TO
VICTORY EVER GOING TO HAPPEN
GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Ricardo responds,
YES, THAT'S THE POLITICAL WORK THAT
THE ORGANIZED CLASS AND TENANTS
NEED TO DO.
WE HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF CASES
WHERE THESE BEEN EXAMPLE.
I WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A VERY
RECENT EXAMPLE.
THE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH CAMPAIGN IN
ONTARIO RIGHT NOW HAD SOME VERY
LARGE DEMONSTRATIONS RECENTLY.
IT SEEMS LIKE LABOUR AND OTHERS
HAVE FORMED A UNITED FRONT
AGAINST THE FORD GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE FIVE DEMANDS.
ONE OF THEM IS RENT CONTROLS.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE LAST
FIVE, SIX YEARS, TENANT ISSUES
HAVE NOT BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT
OF ISSUES IN OPPOSITION AGAINST
DOUG FORD.
BUT NOW IT IS ONE OF THE FIVE
ASKS IN THIS NEW AND SEEMINGLY
LARGE CAMPAIGN.
AND I THINK THAT IS NOT
UNRELATED WITH THE RENT STRIKES
WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS NOT
UNRELATED IN THE GROWTH IN
TENANT UNIONS.

Text reads, “Does Canada Need A Tenant Uprising?”.

Steve says,
LET'S FINISH UP ON THIS.
YOU HAVE PLANTED YOUR FLAG
WITH THE TENANT SIDE OF THIS
ARGUMENT.
THERE IS OBVIOUSLY THE OTHER
SIDE AS WELL.
IF YOU DEMONIZE ONE SIDE OF THIS
EQUATION, AGAINST ANOTHER, HOW
DOES THAT HELP US GET CLOSER TO
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AT THE END
OF THE DAY WHICH IS A SYSTEM
THAT WORKS FOR ALL?

Ricardo answers,
I DON'T THINK I'M DEMONIZING.
I THINK I'M DESCRIBING THE
REALITY AND THE DAY-TO-DAY OF
RENTAL MARKET CHALLENGES.
ACTUALLY, I WOULD ARGUE THAT WE
DO NOT TAKE POLITICS AND POWER,
SOCIAL FORCES, INTO ACCOUNT WHEN
WE PRETEND THAT THIS IS ALL A
TECHNICAL ISSUE THAT WE CAN
BRING FOLKS LIKE ME INTO A ROOM
THAT WE CAN THINK REALLY HARD
AND COME UP FOR A DECISION WITH
IT THAT WE WOULD SOLVE ALL THE
PROBLEMS.
I THINK THAT'S POLITICALLY NAIVE
TO PUT SO MUCH HOPE IN TECHNICAL
SOLUTIONS WHEN WE LIVE IN A
SYSTEM THAT IS POLITICAL, WHERE
LAND AND HOUSE SOMETHING VIEWED
AS THE MOST POLITICAL THING WE
CAN THINK ABOUT.

Steve says,
YOU FEEL THIS IS A BATTLE.
AND TENANTS NEED TO THINK ABOUT
THAT.

Ricardo responds, ABSOLUTELY.

Steve adds,
RICARDO TRANJAN IS THE AUTHOR
OF "THE TENANT CLASS."
HE'S ALSO A POLITICAL ECONOMIST
WITH THE CANADIAN CENTRE FOR
POLICY ALTERNATIVES AND WE
THANK HIM FOR COMING IN TO TVO
TONIGHT.

Ricardo replies,
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

Text reads, “Produced By: Maria Sarrouh, @MariaSarrouh”.